Exclusive Interview - Garrett Oliver

November 2011

He’s Brooklyn Brewery’s original ‘brewmaster’, has won some of the highest awards in brewing and been a judge at the Great American Beer Festival on multiple occasions. He has also written one of the greatest books about beer.

On the launch of his new book, we thought it was time we asked Garrett Oliver a few questions.

Nice to see you, Garrett - pint of the usual? What and where would that be?
That’s a tough one. Some Adnam’s at The Anchor in Walberswick would suit me perfectly or a pint of Thornbridge Jaipur at The Rake in Borough Market.

What inspired you to write your new book, ‘The Oxford Companion the Beer’?
It wasn’t really inspiration, more like a command performance. Oxford University Press asked me to originate the book as its Editor in Chief. At first I said “no way” - I already had a job - and the task seemed simply too gargantuan, but the book needed to be done by someone. My family and friends convinced me that if I didn’t accept the challenge I’d be sorry later. I’m glad that I did, but you might have heard a different answer from me a year ago!

Given the success of ‘The Brewmaster’s Table’, was there any feeling that this would be a tough act to follow?
Frankly, I didn’t feel any need to write a follow up; after all, I don’t write for a living, I make beer. Brewmaster’s Table was a book that was burning a hole in my pocket. I had something to say and I needed to say it. Once I’d done that, I figured I was done with writing. I’m very gratified that the book is still in print and people tell me they’re getting a lot out of it.

Brooklyn Brewery is now a truly global brand yet still manages to keep it’s “home town, craft beer” personality - how do you think this has been achieved?
The Brewery has about 50 employees and sells beer in only about half the United States. But we also sell beer in 17 countries, make beer in Italy, and our second largest market outside of NYC is Sweden. Why? I fell in love with beer while living in London, founder Steve Hindy learned to homebrew in the Middle East, and our GM’s mother is from Milan. We are travelling people, we’ve never stayed home. We were the first brewery in the U.S. to do collaborative beers, starting with the original Brakspear Brewery in Henley-on-Thames in the ‘90s. We make the beer we want to drink and then we sell beer in places we like to visit, working with people we like to hang out with. That’s our master plan!

In the UK there’s a big debate on cask vs keg beer, especially from the Campaign for Real Ale: what’s your opinion?
I think it’s a false debate, like arguing between duck and beef, or Bordeaux vs Champagne. Why can’t I have both? Cask is better at doing some things, such as classic bitter. But I also love a crackling dry, snappy north German pilsner. And I like many beers better when they’re filtered and served with full carbonation. Brooklyn Lager, for example, doesn’t really belong in a cask - it tastes best the way it is. It all depends on what you’re in the mood for.

Another one which is causing a few raised eyebrows over here in the UK: what would be your definition of ‘craft beer’?
To me, craft beer is beer brewed by traditional means, with the goal of creating full, complex flavours. It means that the beer has true provenance - it is made just as it appears to be made, without the use of anything of which the brewer would not be proud. Craft beer is never brewed with blandness as a goal. That’s the main thing that separates it from mass-market beer which isn’t supposed to taste great - it is supposed to be sold to the maximum number of people and produced for the lowest possible price. Personally, I’m not sure that the size of the company has anything to do with it.

What advice would you give to a bar owner to help them sell specialist / craft beer?
We have a tendency to believe that specialist or craft beer has a ‘demographic’ - that one sort of person is more likely to enjoy it than another sort of person, split by age, gender, class, education, ethnicity, etc. The biggest thing to learn is that this is patently untrue: I have seen plenty of grandmothers instantly love 10% imperial stouts, truck drivers turned on by Trappist ales, and Chardonnay-loving young ladies go for big, bitter India Pale Ales. When we underestimate the consumer, we talk down to them, and when we talk down to them, we lose them. Tell people a compelling, delicious story, then pour them the beer. People do have good taste, whether they know it or not - all we have to do is light the path.

In your opinion, which beer or or beer style has been the most important in the last 10 years?
We The American iteration of India Pale Ale, hands down. No matter where you go in the world - from Italy to Japan to Brazil - it’s a touchstone. After that, in general, it is the rise of the Belgian influence everywhere, even when the Belgians themselves don’t always love the results.

What’s exciting youin the beer world at the moment?
A return to wild-yeast fermentations, micro-malting, barrel-aging, ‘vintage’ beers and other things that we once knew about, but somehow managed to forget. All of this is a renaissance, a return to normality.

What meal (and accompanying beer, of course!) would you choose for your last supper?
Rather impossible to say, and I hope not to find out soon! But there would be some wonderful bitter, some saison farmhouse ale, and I feel fairly certain that there would be pork and duck, and some Thai and Indian dishes.

Which beer (if any) do you wish you had created?
Almost every time I have Saison Dupont, I say to myself “damn, that’s just incredible.” Well-aged bottles of JW Lees Harvest Ale give me that feeling too.

Which beer would you most like to be remembered for and why?
Well, I’d like it to be several decades from now, and hopefully something I haven’t brewed yet. Right now I’m working with winemakers, barrel-aging some of our beers on natural vineyard yeasts and letting the wild yeasts take them over. We’ve not figured out how to make beer like this on a commercial basis, but they’re among my favourite beers we’ve brewed. I’m really enjoying Brooklyn Sorachi Ace right now. I plan to grow older as a brewer the way a jazz or blues musician grows older - I want our beers to keep getting deeper, closer to the truth, and more stylish.

The Oxford Companion to Beer (priced £35.00) Published by The Oxford University Press and due for release in the UK November 2011.

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